POST EDIT: (I just want to thank the community for all the support this was overwhelming in a good way all the support. I didn't expect so many people. Thank you all very much. 🙏)
So gave my #1 an ultimatum yesterday after years of abuse and underpay. I had 1st started 6 years ago and his company was on a GoDaddy one-pager going nowhere stuck at $70k a year at best for years with one service worker and the owner working. Got him onto WordPress built an enormous web presence it leads to the service company closing out last year at over 1.6 million. He also created a new brand because of the success 2 brick and mortar stores opened one 14 months ago, site success was so fast that 6 months later a 2nd location was opened. Ends up 2 multi-million dollar companies and I had been doing all marketing by myself. Dev, design, Pay-Per-Click (PPC), social, i.t. rep management, all video AE content, 3d design he does outdoor kitchens, both sites have e-commerce with now 100 's of products it got so big I could not keep up and told him he needed a marketing team and I would need more money. So I got players in place and asked that he start paying me more than $900 a week. He said no. That he could just get one of any of his friends to handle it. I said, better go find him then. Peace out. Sad day. It's not like his pay motivated me. I loved the work loved to bring result after result after result.
One other reason I built the team was that I had taught myself how to build websites, but using a Content Management System (CMS) on top of what is already a CMS WordPress (WP). Well, obviously that's not good, but we were on a Content Delivery Network (CDN) so conversions were not affected. However Core Web Vitals (CWV) are horrible and I tried to warn him we have until May to get these sites right but I would have to call in people better than me expert level deveopers (dev)s, I don't think he believes me even though the companies are seeing declines across the board already and there are numerous factors including the what 10 or so algorithm (ago) changes undoubtedly gearing up for the change in May. I told him what's happening but I don't think he believes me when I said 1 we need a team I am not superman 2. Google is on the move and if you think it's bad for you now wait until May. I had all his solutions in place a team. He would not budge $900 a week to run a team for him and initially I was losing 65% of my salary and all of the money my little #2 client pays me too. I told him I would not continue doing that.
Am I insane, or is he insane, because one of us is, and perhaps both because what I was doing for him was insanely above and beyond? No client will ever get me like this again. I tell you that.
25 👍🏽 5 😢 1 🤔 31
[filtered from 91 💬🗨]
I work with clients and if there's anything I've learned it is to charge for all the work you do and give nothing away. As humans we tend not to value things we receive for free 😏
this sounds about right. As I said in my other reply it turns out he never understood the value which is why he thinks he can get Joe schmo one of his friends to do it. He is in for quite a rude awakening. Meanwhile his numbers are on the decline and I'm telling him why but he still thinks that he's so stupid.
wait till he sees the effects of that and then wait till he sees how much he's going to have to pay to get his sites back to the way they used to work. because the system I created that brought so much success will no longer be good enough. Therefore he's going to have to get some real devs. So yeah he's got what he's got coming
You did the right thing. He'll value you more, but I get where he's coming from. You've been a yes man until now, maybe now he'll respect you. If not, at least you know you respect yourself.
yeah that was my mistake but it was passion that drove me.. to me it was all the ultimate chess game and since I had learned so much throughout the years I figured at least I was gaining a career. It just turns out that he never valued me at all. That's why he thinks he can just get Joe schmo one of his friends to run it all. How ignorant do you have to be to think that.
Kafka » Daniel
get over it and go sell his competitor… most business owners aren't what you've built them up to be. They're human and make judgment calls. You either educate them and maintain mutual respect or you move onto the next one.
Make sure you create a case study before you leave and lose access to the analytics.
Daniel ✍️ » Kafka
tell you the truth I'm going to be investigating other business models that don't include clients. I've had enough of clients over the years. He did have me sign a no compete but offered no incentive another ignorant move no court in Florida will honor that contract so I could go work for his competitor that would be fun. Especially if he ended up coming after me over it LOL the courts would laugh in his face
I made the same mistake a number of years ago of settling for peanuts while helping a business owner build an empire which they sold for multiple millions some time in the last few years.
All I can say is contracts, T's & C's and benchmarks 😊
indeed I have learned my lesson. And there's a warm little spot in my heart knowing what he's in for while he thinks he's going to be just fine. Lol
If you've done it once, is worth considering doing it again yourself but use contractors to do the work, as more of a lead gen business? Our contact product suppliers to see if it's worth doing yourself.
yeah we'll see I had a nice stockpile of money ready to go for him so I have lots of options but for now I'm healing because the last 3 months were 80 hour work weeks back to back to back to back. All trying to make him see the value but as others have mentioned that which is given easily is not often valued. An unfortunate human anomaly I suppose.
Just build your own site out in that niche. You know the whole business. Are you ever getting your agency to 2million or more? If the guy is treating you like a slave, become a slave owner. You know how to rank a site in that niche and can pay sub contractors easily.
That's just me though.
I was definitely thinking of this and I already have a site up that generated at least one lead a week for him though I put no work into that site. He had me sign a no-compete however offered no incentive therefore the courts will throw that contract in his face laughing. Florida courts place a high value on a person's right to earn a living in a contract like that with no incentive being given just sacrifice by me they would not honor it so it would be fun if I were to do that and he would take me to court indeed he would be f***** and be stuck with a large bill
Yeah 99% of non competes won't work for employees. It's usually only enforced for directors and shareholders here in Aus. You can't stop a staff member from earning a wage.
I would just take all the gaps in his business, close them and make a better one. The better company will win. Hope his mate is good at Search Engine Optimization (SEO) 😂
I'm also known for not giving a f*ck, so don't take this as life advice by any means.
Daniel ✍️ » Mikey
oh there's no question this is on my mind and I already have a site up because the last time I had a fallout with him it's exactly what I set up to do and it turns out I put no work into that site yet it generates one lead a week and I was giving him those leads that I was even doing. So the site is already there i could absolutely do this and when he tries to take me to court oh would that be fun with this ignorant stupid contract they will laugh in his face and make him pay all the court fees. I too am known to give zero f**** when somebody crosses me.
Mikey » Daniel
you answered your own question Mate. Get to work
Daniel ✍️ » Mikey
I don't know right now though I need to take time off let my brain heal. In truth I'm sick of humans so I'm thinking of other business models perhaps some affiliate marketing models. Clients in my experience are all the same it seems. And or maybe I never learned how to protect myself against their ignorance and greed. Oh and Search Engine Optimization (SEO) is probably the least of this issues he needs to have his websites rebuilt by real devs. That's one of the main reasons why he sees declines already happening. Remember I did everything you could do in marketing for him. So his mate is going to have to be good at a whole lot more than just SEO which is the point of how magnificent his ignorance really is.
Holgate » Daniel
For your situation, where it seems like you are burned out with client work and If you have no money worries and have some spare capital, then I'd definitely take some time out and then look at more passive income streams like Adsense, SaaS and Affliliate Marketing.
Daniel ✍️ » Holgate
this is precisely my plan well my number one plan I have other ideas but I think this is leading the charge can you point me in the right direction for it is one thing I have always wanted to research but never had time to do it. Passive income streams, no clients, now that my friend is the dream of dreams. I think another model if I were to proceed with clients that would be nice and easy for everyone to understand would be 7% of the net income is mine. And that covers all marketing. But this would only be a good model once a client got established. It would not work early on. from what I've researched 5 to 10% is what should be spent on marketing budget so I figure 7% should be safe. And when I do the math in my head if I were getting 7% of his net that would have been right.
Holgate » Daniel
I might have some training resources on affliliate etc. If I do have any, I'll send them over to you 👍
I helped a friend take a small local repair shop and make it a successful brand. He started 8 more shops and the website was pulling in 100k a month in DIY parts and mail-in repairs. It started with zero sales online. But… it was always like pulling teeth to try to see any financial benefit or increase for myself. So I became a solopreneur and now his online sales are under a thousand a month.Just start your own. At 80 hours a week you could build something you own.
solopreneur = one of the many steps I already took in those crazy 3 months so this is set already. I just have to decide if I want to continue the business model and work for clients doing all marketing. I may instead seek passive income stream business models; for my hope for humanity has all but disappeared of late due to otherworldly issues, and clients, I have never had good experiences with due to my own ignorance no doubt, and lack of experience in securing contracts, laying out expectations, deliverables, etc etc, and have learned about all this the hard way, but I'm burned out right now and can't trust my own thinking yet.
I must heal 1st then decide. I have my little #2 client which by the way I'm doing the same thing for already as I did for my #1, pay for success model is Bull Shit but I had to get a bit more money to put the team together and he was available for a little $200 a week payment and upon success, more money comes my way, but again I'm setting myself up here, for I have drawn out no contract and have a feeling as others have mentioned it is human nature to not value that which is easily given; however, the man I'm doing this for is nothing like my #1 was. This man seems to be a good man and I have known him for some years now. Still, I fear he will prove to be the same even if the way he disrespects me ends up looking different, it's sure to happen so I'm thinking hard now about what to do about him. I have and a stockpile of money, so I can take it easy for a while, but not too long, for I am 43 and must achieve something real, big, lasting, for sure, well, nothing in life is certain but, you know what I mean.
You may want to seek out the digital nomad lifestyle. Live a bit cheaper somewhere for a while and reset yourself with new places, new friends, new foods, etc. The coronavirus has opened a lot of opportunities because countries are now more willing to extend long term visas to non-resident digital nomads. I started a perpetual tourist lifestyle to get healthier, live in a better place for me (a 10 minute walk to the ocean) and make new friends. Ultimately I met my wife, married, and now we are just starting a blog called "Success is Everywhere" It's all about finding Success no matter where you are in life, or in the world.
Daniel ✍️ » Tony
wow how synchronous this I was just talking about this with my friend yesterday I could easily take off the Costa Rica right now and with the number two clients pay alone survive let alone I do have a nice little pile of money. But that's scary just picking up and moving somewhere for a while I do know from experience however it is only the prospect that is scary once you're there you're like oh my God why didn't I do it sooner because I have taken off before it's just been decades.
However if I had someone else I knew of that was doing that exact thing it might not be as scary I just thought of that too who knows where this is headed huh …?
Almost same case with my 4years old client. He just keeps on increasing the workload and his last salary increase was 3 years ago so I told him I'm dropping out if he won't increase my salary, I stayed because he promise he will, he just invested most of his money in the new project I'll be working. We end up agreeing to 5% total monthly sales commission on the new project. Not a bad deal.
in one of my other replies this is exactly a business model I was thinking about if I should continue working with clients I was saying 7% of the total net would be mine however that would cover all marketing. That is Post website dev and design and launch. The only problem is it will work for a startup with money behind it and it could work for a established company but it can't work for a brand new company with hardly any money behind it.
Casas » Daniel
It is hard. Keeping up and maintaining a business with those monthly bills and corporate fees is the hardest! I explained to him our reality.
Been there. Unfortunately 90% of clients are ungrateful. Most don't value what you do for them until you stop doing it. And some are just too proud or too stupid to realize the reason their business went under was precisely because you stopped doing what you were doing.
He doesn't deserve a employee like you, let him regret later
I had a similar situation back in the 90's. Small company, I was wearing many hats, engineering assistant, buyer, shipper and receiver, production manager, CAD projects, pcb assembly and rework, the list goes on. I told him I needed more money, same situation. He insisted he had no money and wanted me to sign a contract on the spot. I said no, I wanted to take it home to review and consider but he wouldn't let me. I walked. I ran into an engineer a couple years later that worked there with me and he said the owner had to hire three people to do what I was doing. Cant make this shit up. Hold your ground, but give him options once he sees you're right. Remain on good terms. Something like give him a number(salary increase) but then let him know once he sees for himself, your price will double or you'll walk. In the meantime, get your shit together just in case. Good luck!
Yeah man, I signed a no-compete for this f*ck, but I was able to review it, and in the end, I signed it only for one reason, he offered in the contract no written incentive. lol, What a dummy. No court in Florida anyway would honor that contract. I almost want to launch as a competitor just so that he could come after me, take me to court, and get embarrassed having to pay all court costs. However, that's just resentment fantasy and not the way I roll. Besides his lawyers wouldn't let him take it to court so it wouldn't get that far anyway. But he would still feel stupid when his lawyers say – you have nothing here bud. lol
You did the job you were paid to do. Then did more because you value your work. Everything is temporary, be it a day or 10 or 100 or 1000. Accept your change and move on. He'll likely call you in a couple years if it was you that was as helpful as you think.
no I don't think so not after the way I lit him up. But he will remember when he passed on an offer that was less money than he ended up having to pay in the end … Not offer ultimatum
You dont ask for a salary increase … you tell them you are getting one. Let them know its not optional if you truly bring the heat.
yeah that's exactly what I did but it didn't work out for me LOL but that was intentional because I would either be free of a douchebag client or get the money I needed. So it was a win-win
Altman » Daniel
good for you. That's the right move. I did at my current job and got a 40% increase. Just get a plan together. Good luck.
Daniel ✍️ » Altman
yeah and what's crazy is what I was asking for was enough just to cover the resources it wasn't like it was going in my pocket and still he wouldn't give it to me. I knew he wouldn't and so it was a win-win for me either I got out of a toxic relationship or I got paid correctly but anyways what good is money if you're in a toxic relationship to earn it so I'm glad it worked out that way.
He was paying you $46,000 a year to do xyz? You wanted more Money to do more things and he said no. You valued your opinion like an owner with all of the risk vs an employee with no risk. Because he did not agree with you, you quit. Now you are told good job. He feel you built his business and he knows he paid you for a part of his business. I am guessing the business is a bbq or backyard patio furniture business. Nine out of ten times i personally would visit the location to touch, feel, and see the items vs buying it online. The owner has the building, the inventory, the other employees, etc that collectively builds the business. Pride comes before a fall. My opinion nor any other Persons opinion matters in here. To make this business over night to compete takes a lot of money if I have the niche down. I however believe if you have mad skills stuck in a dead end job then you will find a different one that pays more by leaving. Now get your resume out there.
I wanted more money so that he could get what he needs done now he didn't ask me to do that however nor does he hold back when he tears into me because his phones aren't ringing. So that was the conundrum. Therefore I set out to fix the problem and the problem was that it had gotten too big for me to handle by myself therefore I needed more Capital to have the resources to handle the magnitude. and I don't care how good you are no one can handle two multi-million dollar businesses and do every facet of marketing you can do from top to bottom by yourself. For 900 a week
The biggest problem is that he thinks and these were his words yesterday he could have had any one of his friends just hop in there and get the job done. That is the kind of ignorance I was dealing with and I had no idea all this time. But it absolutely explains a whole lot of why it has been emotional torture for me working for him. and I told him in the email that he had never valued me or respected me directly and it turns out I was right he said it himself he thinks Joe schmo one of his friends can jump in there and handle everything. How stupid can you be right? His other favorite thing to say to me was we all work like slaves. To which I replied and that is why no one lasts working for you for more than 6 months I'm the only one six years well there was one other guy 3 years but I swear everyone else under 6 months and he has been in business for 10 years.
The last part of the torture was that it's his business model that fails to scale and I told him it would for years ago eventually I told him it would get too big and this model would fail well we discovered exactly at what point it fails and that was in November 30 to 40 client captures a day it was overwhelming them bad reviews were coming in they couldn't handle it. Then of course all the blame was on me and he started tinkering with everything in micromanaging me and everything went downhill from there. Throw in 10 or so Google algorithm updates in the meantime prepping for May also include the fact that I had gotten that manpower and therefore grew the site by 200 pages diluting the link equity by increasing the crawl budget far faster than the off site SEO efforts could fuel. It was The perfect Storm of s***.
Actually the last part of the torture and there's more but the last one I'm going to list is he would not listen to half of my communications nor read half of my emails. There were times where I forecasted issues and asked for a budget to fix it or the means to fix it no go. Or I would ask him again and again until he exploded on me saying no only to then later explode on me again when that exact issue happened this man was a real nightmare.
James » Daniel
sounds like an entrepreneur to me with low emotional control and low leadership. Nothing to do with money. More to do with him.
Daniel ✍️ » James
you are on the money no pun intended LOL. Very ignorant also not even derogatory speaking just factually. But maybe like others are saying he will learn the hard way now and I just don't think I could work for him ever again. So even if he comes back and offers to take me up on my ultimatum I think I'm going to have to say no
Best of luck! Sounds like you won't have an issue building value to future customers.
I've been in your situation before and have learn to structure contacts to be 100% performance with guaranteed minimum monthly retainer.
This allows us to cover our costs and have the upside after we deliver solid results for our clients
is it possible you think I can have a look at one of your contracts just the structure of it? It's something like a pay for performance model right?
Daniel ✍️ » Juan
it is what I have been doing however I have not been doing the contract part that has been a big mistake.
Juan » Daniel
that would be the mistake you have to address. I don't do any SEO work. My company focuses in media buying primarily.
Daniel ✍️ » Juan
I'm just trying to figure out how you charge beyond your retainer. I'm wanting to do a percentage of the net but that will only work for an established company. But if you're doing a percentage of the net then there's no need for monthly retainer. So I don't know I'm trying to make both of those work together because I've heard numerous people talk about it that way. I just don't understand the retainer part if you're already getting a net percentage. But it was someone else that mentioned both. and also this business model includes all marketing so I could see how it won't relate to what you're saying.
Juan » Daniel
I have a flat $$$$ in case sales slump below certain threshold, otherwise the % of sales leads the way.
Daniel ✍️ » Juan
gotcha gotcha but this is why this is a little more difficult for a new client that doesn't have much going yet. Establishing such thresholds would be difficult. like I have my number two client which is part of the storm protection industry I'm guessing perhaps then I should figure out what the average storm protection company makes annually and perhaps base everything on that. In this I can create some sort of scaling contract.
Juan » Daniel
you'd have to learn about their numbers during the initial sales call. Usually if the clients don't know their acquisition costs, I estimate them at 7.5-12.5% of total ltv
Daniel ✍️ » Juan
again here it sounds like you're talking about a startup with capital behind it? I'm trying to figure out how to work out Joe schmoe home storm protection that is renting some warehouse space and fabricating home storm shutters and is currently struggling. However I will likely be getting rid of this guy too because I think he's playing games and he would never tell me his numbers. Because then he'd have to pay me more I think he's lying right now in fact and continually acting as though he can't afford to pay me what he's already paying me. This is a cultural thing as I worked with him at another business prior that was a culturally built business and they practice the same deceit. And since he is a product of that company he is likely practicing the same b*******. As you can see I am quite fed up with clients.
however that is a me thing in failing to secure contracts and failing to ever think about this part of the business which is crucial and I have learned the hard way so that's why I'm saying I don't think this guy will go for a contract anyways but no one will ever ever do what this other guy did to me again because it will be contractual from now on or they can piss off that's why I'm trying to figure out the best way to do it.
Juan » Daniel
I'm glad to hear you identified the bottleneck. Time to solve it, lay the proposal out, name your price, and he disagrees go to his direct competitor and show him what you've built
Daniel ✍️ » Juan
Yeah man, and in the said contract it will be stated clearly "MUST HAVE FULL DISCLOSURE OF THE NET INCOME AT ALL TIMES." That's for sure. Yes, of course, we can track a lot of that, but there is nothing like an open book straight from the customer relationship management (CRM), or accounting software. It's like my guy now, he can't seem to reply to my messages yet he is so broke??? Plus, I see his numbers on the rise, but same song and dance "I'm so broke wha wha" Still don't want to share an example contract with em though? If so, direct-message (DM) me please would love a gander. Thanks!!
At the top of my op is a post-edit.
I imagine you will be getting a lot of business with this post.
Daniel ✍️ » Hahn
yeah you know someone in a direct message mentioned that if anyone had accused me of doing this to get business and I said no one had yet I don't think you're accusing me of doing that but you're right my God I had no idea. Something like five different offers. But that is not what I was after my brain is still fried for Christ's sake. I was just looking for support and I got it thank you guys.
Impressive story. I would pay you that in a second with those kinds of results. $3600/month is good value.
Daniel ✍️ » Juan
oh no no 900 was what he was paying me. I asked for $1,500 a week. Because you got to understand I'm not just SEO I do everything and I had been doing it by myself the whole time but I had assembled a team and had people to pay. So it wasn't that I was asking for 900 a week that's what I was getting yeah
Daniel ✍️ » Hahn
you can't be paying $900 a week and have two again two multi-million dollar businesses one service company and the other domain represents two brick and mortar store fronts in the same city no one can handle that by themselves for $900 a week
And the point of assembling the team was it had grown far too large like I said no one can handle that volume by themselves Pay-Per-Click (PPC), Search Engine Optimization (SEO), social media management all design all Dev video content production even 3D design sometimes because he does outdoor kitchens are you kidding me hell no LOL 🤣😂
$1500 a week for all that is a good deal! He will see when you leave and his sites go down in rank
So this guy goes out and hires an agency that has a CWV score of 2 on mobile, and 6 and desktop … LMAO!!! Oh my … what a mistake he has made. I know the song and dance they gave him, and he thinks he is sitting pretty now, but we all know what comes next as they ramp up the prices or when he discovers he fell victim to a turn and burn agency that feeds of the ignorant business owners and knows how to make everything appear great, but doesn't apparently know how to code sites HAHAHAHA. The agency he hired is in worse trouble than he is!!
make sure to double your fee when he comes back!
I don't know what CWV is.. how do you find a score?
Daniel ✍️ » Hahn
well I told him because somehow I'm still constantly this freaking guy ask them one single question "what is your plans for my Core Web Vitals (CWV) issues?" If they have no clue run. So we're talking about Google core website vitals and it's becoming a big deal whether it's fair or not doesn't matter it's becoming a big deal and in May is supposed to be in full effect. Perhaps one of the biggest most game-changing core updates of all time. Because if they actually do make it as big a deal as they're making it out to be then the days of getting by as a website WordPress designer are behind us and the days of the real deal devs are back. This is actually good as it raises all of our value. However we have to raise some of us our skill set now. My plan to f*** off cwv issues is I'm learning webflow because webflow is also capable of spitting out 100% perfect Wp compatible code and performance is astonishing. So I will either have my clients on webflow or if their site is too big for webflow then I will use webflow as my design stage. I will then export the code and hand it to a real dev if I haven't figured it out yet by then. but I'm sure with this system I'll figure it out enough to be able to implement that code into WordPress as I doubt it's that complicated. It's just I don't know because I have yet to export any code and try it. I only know for a fact webflow equals kiss your cwv issues goodbye. There are many WordPress designers I will still call them that simply use post like pages and therefore have good cwv. But I have always insisted on making creative type of sites and I have a lot of full screen animations and videos and all kinds of stuff so.
Daniel ✍️ » Juan
he's probably shitting his pants right now because I sent him the link that shows it and you know he's going to put his own websites in there and see that his own websites while they still have the issue smoke that agency's website that he just hired LMAO
Maybe I hire you to run my sites
Daniel ✍️ » Hahn
just move on. I feel you, you're attached to that work, to the projects, to the people, but this is not charity. let it go and move on. you've done it once, you'll do it again, just now you are mature enough to do it on your terms. you don't have to thank that guy for this maturity you gained, or for anything else.
especially since money that was never properly there to begin with was not the driving factors here for me. It was always me developing a career while at least makeing something. So it was passion plus I figured as I grew my money would.
Well I grew to an agency level only to then discovered he capped me at a solo level "not that even that was ever enough either" and refused to pay a team … it got to big for one man alone so what does he do, refuses my ultimatum, goes and hired a cheap turn and burn agency team that has a site cwv score of 2 on mobile, 4 on desktop. I told him oh that's great you go out and finally get a team meanwhile their website is in worse trouble than yours are. Good luck I told him LOL .. plus I sent him the Googe Core Web Vitals (GCWV) link and said " go ahead I dare you to see for your self, your sites smoke their site, click the link below!" Haha "but maybe don't, I wouldn't want to ruin your hope or anything." Lol so I mind f*cked him for sure and learning fast the foolish decision he made. Though at this point I'm glad he made it. Doors, far better door ways are now b4me.
Bogdan » Daniel
if you want to do good for people, there are plenty of people in need for help. real people, in real need. if you want to work or do business, you have to do it for money. don't get me wrong – there are a lot of driving factors beside the money, and a lot of principles to follow while making the money. but it just won't work without the money. I was young once, working for peanuts 7/7 360 days. I was thinking "man, at least I am appreciated and I learn a lot of things". I discovered that only one out of the two parts of this statement was actually true 🙂 Now? I do only two type of jobs: well paid or free – never in between. never. this is not my advice for the green ones – they have to take tons of shit until getting to a position where you can do that…
Daniel ✍️ » Bogdan
indeed. It's a me thing I take accountably for what happened. Call it due to naivety or laziness, but I never did deploy certain fundamentals and a mans word or my faith in man to do the right thing in the end used to be good enough for me. No more. There will be contracts to sign or future prospects can keep walking. Bet that. I don't care if it's my own brother. It's now agency protocol so no one will escape this. It's applicable in all cases, unless like you said I'm choosing to freely help for whatever reason. Yup. Experience … the ultimate teacher aye?
Bogdan » Daniel
I have to add: "especially if it's my own brother" 🙂. I'm joking a bit, but actually – only the people you trust can really hurt you, isn't it?
Daniel ✍️ » Bogdan
yeah that's the worst pain indeed.
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