The Summary of Discussion 2: SEO Experts got Asked What Do You Do When You Get Grueling Customers?
What do you do when you get difficult customers?
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I'll tell you what I find strange that the majority of foolish business owners just don't get.. You Search Engine Optimization (SEO) their site…Their site ranks…Then they get greedy and not want to pay to rank for more keywords, so they log into their site, change all the structure, keyword stuff the entire page…Then…the site crashes…Then they're on the phone blaming you. This happens repeatedly. You fix it, they crash it, you fix it, they crash it…Until they finally end up leaving thinking you are to blame and a few weeks later through their own fault, crash the entire site altogether with all rankings gone….Some of these clients just don't get that SEO these days is a science and the slightest change can practically destroy everything . Then they come back ….and that's when you tell them you can't help them because they refuse to be helped and will just start the whole process all over again . I've had clients like this and let me tell you it's better they go… When the client starts to play the SEO specialist instead of running their own business and leaving the SEO to the experts, it's best they go. All it does is increase your workload They don't seem to understand, that leave it alone means leave it alone…Talk about shooting yourself in the foot
This is exactly the way this business is going. It puzzles me some clients don't appreciate the profits we are helping them generate. I've explained how the SEO landscape works. I give them the gym analogy if they stop going to the gym they start losing muscle. This is the reason they got to keep investing in their business to not just keep the revenues coming but to increase them. They think once they reach the top with some keywords, they don't need to continue optimizing their properties. It's sad how some business owners lack vision of their business. They think the work we do is easy peasy.
Peter » Martin
I don't mean to sound rude but just because they own businesses doesn't mean that all of them understand English at times. It's baffling. I can't stand it when clients start to play the SEO expert. It's why they hire us…Then, they pay us so we can do the Search Engine Optimization (SEO) the way …" THEY " …want it which never works instead of just running their own business and leaving SEO to us.
No! Sometimes a customer is also a SEO expert and is only outsourcing work because of time problems. In fact there are so many "SEO experts" in the industry pretending to be experts! You can see this directly in so many Facebook comments, where "SEO experts" are asking if and how they can find errors or problem solutions. It is not easy to find the right one SEO, who is trustworthy. And budget is always the limited resource.
Ahmed » Ariel
If someone asking for any errors solution it doesn't mean they are beginner usually sometimes doctor need another doctor help as u know .. but if u want someone top class who don't need to ask any thing .. so these guys have at least 10 years of experience n they usually charge allot which is not affordable for every one..
I am talking of really basic SEO questions, of course there are also complicated problems, that often need to be discussed between SEO experts.
I'm talking about when your client site is ranking in the top positions after you've done the work and then the client destroys it by messing with it. I'm talking when you know you're an expert, you've achieved the results, and the client keeps screwing it up because they are trying to rank for more keywords. If you're not an expert, that's another story
Chris Edwards 🎓
Tell them you run the Search Engine Optimization (SEO) and if they don't trust you then it's best you part ways.
The problem is not the owner, but his manager. He thinks he knows what's best for the business. The company has been growing since we took them as clients. This is a new manager and he is changing many things around. If I can't get to the owner, I will have to tell them goodbye. At some point, I felt part of the company before doodle guy arrived.
Chris Edwards 🎓 » Martin
If the guy is stonewalling you, then you really have no option than to tell him you need a three way call (including the owner) to prevent "he said she said" conversations, and to ensure that the good work already paid for by the owner, and having resulted in large gains in profit is not undone.
Martin » Chris Edwards
Yes, I have tried it but he is not letting me do it. I have left voicemails to the owner, then get a call back from the manager saying he is the only point of contact from now on. I feel sorry for these guys.
They won't trust you, trust has to be built. There are too many SEO experts out there who does not do their job right and clients end up wasting money. If you take care of your client and deliver what you are suppose to, I don't think client will have any issues or they will try to replace you trying to become self proclaimed experts. If I have to work with anyone to Search Engine Optimization (SEO) my site I won't trust until or unless I see it in action, once trust is built I am okay to leave it but unfortunately few SEO work that way most are trying to make their money till the time they can. If you are delivering results and still client is acting greedy and all it's better to let them screw it for them and move on.
I never charge for work I don't do and don't genuinely pursue the bottom-line results to bring more revenue to the business. Search Engine Optimization (SEO) is not just about ranking keywords and fixing technical errors. It's also about improving conversions, editing the site, making sure the content fits the search intent landscape and their customers find what they are looking for. Positioning is everything. It hasn't been easy at all to reach where they are today, but it is what it is. This new manager thinks he knows how to solve all the world problems.
I have a section in my disclaimer that says neither the client nor anyone affiliated with the client shall interfere with my work in ANY way and that such interference will be made at their expense.
They agree to it whether they understand it or not and I'll even warn them if they do it once.
Twice and I let them go.
This is what I missed adding in the contract, good point
Kevin » Martin
I give a few examples of what "interfere" means, too. Adding images, changing meta tags, altering their Google My Business (GMB) listing, etc.
It doesn't always stop them but they really can't argue when I fire them.
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The Summary of Discussion 1: Solution for a Client Website Can Not Get Page 1 for the Main Keyword Since Two Years Even It Has Accreditations in the Industry
Does anyone have any ideas or out of the box approaches?
We have been working on a clients site for 2 years now and no matter what we try we can not get them to page 1 for their main keyword.
the site is built well, has great Domain Authority (DA), has great high quality links and accreditations in their industry. We have done lots of testing with their copy and keyword placements. Their site is arguably better than any others in the search results. We just can not break page 1 for them.
We have not faced this issue before. Normally it takes time but we have never had an issue like this.
Does anyone have any ideas or out of the box approaches?
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Does it pop into page one then disappear?
Did you pay for links?
Is this natural healing related?
Is the content overwritten in order to be "authoritative?"
Nope, we can't get it to break page one for this main keyword.
Nope no payed links, just link building with quality links. They have heaps of links from high quality sources. Like authorities in the industry.
Not natural healing. Very standard typical service.
Roger » Taylor
I'm not a fan of getting links from so-called "authorities."
Something unnatural about that. Normal and relevant works.
If there's a geographical component then that's half of the relevance.
There's different kinds of relevance. I don't think Google cares about "authority" so much, not the way SEO users tend to think about it.
No offense intended but by referencing DA you are signalling that you are at an entry level of Search Engine Optimization (SEO). You might feel like you know SEO but you may not actually know it as well as you think you do.
Not saying this is you but there are some who read a couple blogs and think okay, that's straightforward and they're ready to take on clients.
But what they don't know is that quite a bit of that information is totally wrong because they are just passing on RECEIVED KNOWLEDGE, reading things off the Internet and repeating it, unfiltered by any actual experienced knowledge.
My advice is to be open to the possibility that you don't know SEO as well as you think you do and if you can do that then you are ready to step up to a more competitive level.
So your ideas of authority and what constitutes a quality link are quite possibly incorrect, which may be contributing to why you're having trouble ranking this page.
Typical local SEO problem. Been auditing tons of local sites that got stuck on page 2 no matter what they did. It seems like you might over optimized something/or not having enough trust signals.
Based upon the limited information available in your post, here are the assumptive questions that come to mind. Some may not really be all that relevant, but it's hard to get to the real bottom of something like this without a full and in-depth look.
1) Firstly… are they the right keywords in the first place? You can slap keywords all over a page, but if those keywords indicate the desire for something that you don't actually offer, then they aren't going to rank. An example I like to use is "Printing." Let's say you have a company that makes "Printers" so you see that the search term "Printing" has a lot of volume and want to optimize for it. Well, sorry… you make "Printers" but someone searching for "Printing" is not looking to buy a printer, they are looking for a "Printing Service." The only way you are ever going to rank for "Printing" is to actually start offering printing services.
2) What does the knowledge graph surrounding your keywords look like? A well established knowledge graph in a subject area means keywords on a page mean even less. (You can tell the knowledge graph is well established if the terms or related terms are showing all sort of rich snippet stuff – product boxes, did you mean? stuff, definition featured boxes, people also asks, and all that. Even if the knowledge graph isn't well developed in that area, you can bet Google is trying to understand it and get it all mapped in. In that case, you need to be thinking in terms of establishing the knowledge graph with your entities and attributes (i.e. keywords – but with context).
In less competitive areas, keyword matching still works – and frankly, it's the only thing that will work, at first. In more competitive areas, there's a lot of info out there so Google can take that info and start building out it's knowledge graph. Once that starts to happen, you need to scrap the notion of "ranking for keywords" and get into the notion of giving those keywords context that fits into or expands Google's understanding of the entities and their attributes. Lone dangling keywords without context within your site and overall brand entity are only ever going to rank if there's nothing else out there to show.
This is a good answer. Thanks.
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