Discussion 5: Thoughts on Bing Search Engine Optimization | Bing SEO
Lori Appleman 🎓
Bing is REALLY upping its search game. Who here is making any effort to optimize for Bing? Looks like it may be worth doing. Bing has always delivered less traffic than Google but often delivers better traffic though it skews towards older visitors. Your thoughts?
Microsoft Bing's new visual search features | Wordtracker
Bing's new features aim to provide appealing, aggregated information designed to deliver results quickly. From the Wordtracker blog.
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If you're trying to tackle the Chinese market, Bing SEO is an underrated channel. It's the only Western search engine not blocked in the mainland!
interesting! I did not know this
Chris » Lori Appleman
I lived in Shanghai for a few years and we'd often use it in place of Google image search when we had VPN issues
Bing focuses on the quality of search. Google focuses on quantity of indexed pages and its products promotion. I use Bing if I need the quality sources of information.
I can't take Bing seriously.
I have hundreds of exact match domains parked with a single page of content. Bing ranks many of them on their first page, regardless of the minimal DUPLICATE content.
Don't get me wrong, that's great for me, but the thought of optimizing for Search Engine Result Pages (SERPs) that are so undiscerning.. not sure what the point is.
I also keep seeing strange SERPs where the second page is the same results as the first page. Not sure what's up with that.
I just think Bing is terrible. I make money there and even buy some ads from them, but will not waste additional time when their rankings are so garbage, at least in my niche.
When it comes to Pay-Per-Click (PPC) we allocate 10% of our budget to Microsoft ads and it converts about 15% cheaper. Home services niche so it's good for the older demo.
If your ads are profitable, why do you cap the budget? My usual recommendation is to set your CPA and as long as you stay underneath it, keep bumping budget until you've hit the limit of what you can get at your desired price. That wouldn't necessarily hold true for branding campaigns though.
Brandon » Lori Appleman
the biggest reason is honestly management time. Currently we only import ads from Google. We may up our % of budget, but it'll require a more hands on approach and because it doesn't make sense to dump a majority of the budget to MS it also doesn't make sense to increase management costs based on our fees.
Lori Appleman ✍️🎓 » Brandon
makes sense. Fees make the bar to profitability higher.
We do have another client in the cybersecurity space that we're going to experiment more heavily with MS Ads because of Duck Duck Go, though. It'll be interesting to see the results there
would it be a good option to get traffic from Australia??
check how much use they get in Australia. I have no idea
I'm in Australia & I've been putting some effort into Bing over the past few months. Analytics is showing very low traffic numbers, but it is starting to happen. With the recent standoff between Google & the govt users are using alternative search engines.
quite interesting it may start getting more traffic with the Google issues in Aus indeed something to observe this few months . Does Bing have a trends tool?
Donna » Arios
they have a developer section on website with API's, but I'm still hunting for the stuff we commonly use in Google.
Vikas » Donna
thanks for sharing the information, i do think Bing would grab this opportunity to be people's choice since Google looses its hold in Australia.
Donna » Vikas
yes I think they saw a gap and read the room that us Aussies are not happy with Google or Facebook for that matter. Competition is healthy and it's about time Google had some serious contenders.
Bing has higher converting traffic in ecommerce from my experience. I run a site that's #1 on Bing for many if not most keywords in that niche. Google did it's core update thing to bring keywords and traffic down over time. But Bing must be giving users more relevant results if the conversion rate is higher.
I personally use Bing and notice that it has been improving more recently (unlike Google). I don't like the Microsoft branding, but love Bing rewards. Haven't paid for a cup of coffee in years thanks to Microsoft. When I used Amazon, it also came in handy for gift cards.
Many make fun of Bing as well as the branding. Bing provides search results to sites like DuckDuckGo, Yahoo, and many others.
It's true that Microsoft makes a shitty operating system (even though I am currently using it), but Bing is very underrated. I think if they keep it up, it will return search results of much higher quality than Google for both local and non-local in the very near future.
Their market share is slowly increasing.
They have a long way to go for that. Their search results are awful, especially for local right now.
Lori Appleman ✍️🎓 » Kyle
Bing also powers Yahoo. I forget whether it's Google or Bing powering Duck.
Kyle » Lori Appleman
Both power the Duck
Kyle » Mike
I can agree with the local part. But I disagree that their results are awful. I use both Google and Bing, and yes, I tend to use Google for local searches still.
Bing powered traffic is almost 10% of traffic worldwide now. It may be more than that because DuckDuckGo is often left out of the charts.
Search engine market share worldwide | Statista
Of course different sites have different statistics. This shows Bing powered traffic at roughly 4.8%. About 8% (maybe slightly more) of traffic on the ecommerce site I am referring to in the post above comes from Bing and Bing powered search engines. But I imagine the figure could be much higher if you rank poorly in Google but great in Bing.
Search Engine Market Share Worldwide | StatCounter Global Stats
Last comment: They recently replaced the Bing logo with that ugly Microsoft logo. I personally can't stand it. But maybe it's why their market share is increasing. But I can't imagine the Microsoft branding appeals to younger people and many in tech.
maybe it rekindled the older generation memory with the logo change and that's why an increase of users or the Aussie fued with Google has an impact?
In which industry is your Ecom?
I love Bing and its features. I get around 3k-5k daily traffic from Bing/Yahoo/Microsoft/Ecosia. And the best thing, the engagement and Cost Per Thousand Impressions (CPM) is always high.
Discussion 4: To rank a Website on Google and Bing’s First Pages without Backlinks
A good day to everyone!
I would like to ask a question:
Is it possible to rank on Google without building backlinks?
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Yes if you chose to rank for a really really low competition keyword 🙂
Not for anything with commercial value or competition
Low competition probably possible if on page is done good
Possible without building them, but unlikely without acquiring them
Yes, I outrank my competition in a very competitive niche and I have very few backlinks. I've spend absolutely no time trying to build them.
care to share your niche?
I'm curious for research purposes 😬
Frizzell » Floyd
real estate investing
Floyd » Frizzell
I got into that when I partnered with Tai Lopez, you're saying you're ranking for REI terms on page one of Google.com?
Frizzell » Stephen
yes sir I get 700-800 unique visitors a day. Not crazy traffic but I do well.
Moni » Frizzell
Can you share how you did it please?
Yes, if competitive is low… and you are doing all other known ranking factors correctly.. such as website speed, on page seo, good and unique content, user experience, CTR … etc
Yes! You can, over the day you need links to keep the position stable.
Yep getting 10k visits / month with 40 articles with no link building
thats too much hype to believe in buddy
Ben Yes that is possible. What is your Domain authority (DA)? My DA is 3 and have 58 articles and a traffic of 9k per month.
Ben » Moni
DA is 1.7
Sarra » Ben
I'm assuming you won't spill your secret sauce but just to point me out in your general direction, what do you think a person should focus on to get these results if not backlinks and publishing in bulk ?
Ben » Sarra
I go after low competition keywords. One keyword I found actually brought in 3k visits per month. Another brings in 1k. Those two keywords I found on forums. If you see forums or other user generated content on the front page when you search for your keyword, that's a sign of low competition
agree, my domain is 12 months old, new domain, posting more frequently for the last 11 months, no backlinks, DA 6. Hit and miss for me with posts, but generally choose mid-low search volume keywords, with low search results, then build up and target more competitive keywords…
Sarra » Ben
do you use Google autocomplete or the "alphabet soop" method to get blog post ideas?
Ben » Sarra
yes use both and even built my own tool for it
That's awesome! Best of luck and Thank you for answering !
Yes. Without "building" backlinks definitely Yes! Without having backlinks (which should organically grow while your website gets find better and better) that could become a challenge for keywords.
Absolutely. If you choose low competition keywords and produce long length and high quality articles.
For sure it is! Invest in quality content and proper on-page Seo ( technical seo + … )
Content is still king – Google my business, maps and social media profiles .
Depends on your market and how old is your domain
You can rank for a site: search 🙂
Honestly, G is devaluing backlinks slowly, but they are still a massive ranking factor. Def varies depending on the niche and keywords (as with everything in SEO).
Not to sound like G, but if your content/site is good enough to rank without many/any backlinks, it will naturally get backlinks in most cases. (unless you have stumbled on a niche that literally no one other than you care about)
Seems possible – check out this TW thread
will king on Twitter
Thank you very much for your reply guys! I really appreciate it! 🥰🥰🥰
If your competition that you want to beat have all other aspects of SEO nailed and are building good backlinks then there's no way around it, you'll need to do it. When everyone says ‘it depends' that always means ‘it depends if your competitors are doing it'
I've been ranking keywords without backlinks for years. It is totally doable. You'll need to do thorough keyword research and on-page.
Absolutely yes, our secret success formula has been writing AI optimized content in a Topic Clusters form, technically optimized & fast websites and internal linking.
Discussion 3: Differences Between SEO for Google and Bing
Marcus » Martinez
Differences between SEO for Google and Bing
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BASIC Bing Search Engine Optimization (SEO) STUFF
1) You can only count on links that Bing indexes
2) Study Bing's Webmaster Guidelines
3) Bing indexes fewer pages and links than Google; hence, it requires more effort to stay indexed
4) Study Bing's query data (not Google's)
5) Learn which search engines use Bing's data, algorithms (there are MANY)
Some Web marketers say that Bing optimization feels like how they used to optimize for Google a few years ago. That's one angle to consider. I don't necessarily endorse or disagree with the point of view. As with Google you need to experiment with Bing.
In general what works for Google is LESS lkely to work for Bing. Bing dances to its own tune.
Bing searchers may be more likely to convert in some niches (confirmed by many Pay-Per-Click (PPC) specialists through the years, but we've noticed the same benefit for organic traffic).
In my experience Bing is more likely than Google to:
1) Award Featured Snippets
2) Show fewer listings in a Search Engine Result Page (SERP)
3) Award sitelinks in branded queries
4) Return truly diverse results for queries
5) Filter out clear and obvious spam sites
Pay less attention to "search market share" and more attention to "who is using Bing" in each region and language.
Study search market share on the basis of public browser data (see link below). Ignore the popular "search market share" estimates based on search advertising views.
StatCounter Global Stats – Browser, OS, Search Engine including Mobile Usage Share
That would result in doing pretty much the same for Bing SEO (not having read Bing Webmaster Guidelines yet) I would do for Google Search Engine Optimization (SEO) … well, without the hazzl to see how to get the JS stuff work.
When I am talking SEO I usually talk about White Hat SEO – so no looking for getting specific links but more looking at how link worthy I am and to do my seeding right, trying to build good (not spammy websites), … and actually do dislike JS relying websites, so I usually urge clients to not rely on it anyways.
Going for structured Data (both Schema.org and structured through HTML like setting or lists, tables where it makes sense, … ) – even for those structured Datas I aim to structure as much as possible (even if Google currently doesn't show any features for it in the SERPs).
So recalling again – I would say I already do what is needed for Bing SEO, right?
What I could do better though to get aware what I eventually can expect from Bing (by reading their Webmaster Guidelines, using there tools like Ads Keyword Tool, Webmaster Tools, check wich tools use Bing data, check out which SERP features Bing currently shows, … ).
Martinez » Marcus
Bing and Google are two separate, distinct search engines. They collect their own data and they process Web documents their own ways. So, no, what you do for Google isn't what you need to do for Bing. Bing SEO begins with verifying a site with Bing Toolbox. You have to analyze the data Bing gives you in order to optimize for Bing search.
But isn't that what you do for Google as well? Register for the Webmaster-Tools e.g Google Search Console (GSC), analyze the data and then optimize for keywords, structured data, site structure, crawl budget, OnPage like Titels, content,… , Offpage,… ) based on the data you see?
Or is there something I would do really different for Bing than I would do for Google (based on the data the search engine provides to me)?
Martinez » Marcus
The point is that there are differences between how the search engines operate. They don't handle rich markup exactly the same way in all cases, which is why if you're relying on Schema you should read the Bing Webmaster guidelines first. My concern is that someone reading your deductions might make the same mistake many marketers do: believe (wrongly) that "if it's done for Google then it's done for Bing". There are cases where each search engine goes in a different direction. It is possible to optimize for both on the same page but you have to be aware of the need to do that.
Several years ago I made Bing my default search engine. It took more than a year for me to become comfortable with seeing Bing results
first because I had used Google for so long. But once I had established that routine I was quite satisfied with Bing. I use it first for all my research and only switch over to Google if I am unsatisfied with what I find. I still use Google often (even first) when working on SEO projects, but Bing should not be ignored in some markets (especially North America).
Something I mentioned in the other thread is that Bing is powering the majority of voice search results these days. They are Amazon Echo's search provider. The data about voice search devices is hard to come by. Amazon says their install base is over 100 million devices but if you dig deeper you'll see a lot of their customers have more than 1 Echo. Also, Google doesn't publish install data for Home. But Google dominates voice search on mobile and Bing dominates voice search on desktop. Bing may eventually lose this competition but they are fighting hard to keep their position.
Something else to consider: I would estimate that maybe 25-30% of the SEO articles I read about search engine patents evaluate Microsoft's search patents. In some cases the writers appear to be mistaking Microsofit's work for Google's work. In other cases the writers are using Microsoft's work to illustrate principles about what they think or suspect Google may be doing. If you want to learn more about Bing search optimization, while one should never assume that any given patent process is currently in use, you should browse Microsoft's search patents. They were doing a lot of machine learning stuff before anyone else.
I'd like to add you as a friend, Martinez.
Discussion 2: To rank a Website on Google and Bing’s First Pages without Backlinks
I’ve always been a skeptic when people have said that they can rank without links for keywords that are pretty competitive, but recently I have found this is actually happening on one of my affiliate sites.
This isn’t an Amazon site, I have a direct relationship with multiple manufacturers and the niche is pretty unique…
However, as this is something that I have a passion for I’m always ahead of the game and know which products are coming out during the year. Which allows me to plan my content in advance.
So recently I’ve been having content written, which is premium level and there have been multiple instances that I’m now ranking in the top 3 for the main keywords when the products are launched…
Even better, after 12 months from when the the products have been released (which now get over 5k searches a month) the pages are still in the top 3…
The site does have some decent authority and hyper relevant links from sites within the niche I’m in but no links at all going to these new pages…
So, I guess my opinion has now changed and I am believer that content only can work, if you get in early, and the content rocks!!!
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Also no need for private blog network (PBN) links
The site itself needs to be in authority mode!
Totally mate, the site now has a DR of 38 and has been around for 2 years now… From an SEO perspective there’s not much in the way of competition…
I guess what I also wanted to get across was if you have a passion for something take a step back and look at ways that you could potentially monetize this… I would never have thought 3 years ago I would have a site that was smashing it in this niche, also, if I didn’t have a true passion for this niche then I wouldn’t know when these products etc were being released and have access to people who are using the products etc… Sometimes, you just need to think outside the box…
Steve » Marley
… outside of the box… monetizing ones passions and hobbies or unique gifts? If your only box has been so links I guess. Youtubers are about 5 billion steps ahead then …lol
Marley ✍️ » Steve
Also, if I wasn’t so camera shy I could be the first to be smashing this on YouTube… The manufacture videos of the products get millions of views each month… So review videos would kill it I know that, maybe I need to hire someone haha
Matt Diggity 👑
I think I'm ranking #1 right now for "rank and rent".
As far as I know, my link builder hasn't landed any external links yet.
But either way, I was #1 with zero links.
But that doesn't mean my site doesn't have a shit ton of other links on it that made that happen.
When people say they rank with no links, they're not telling the full story. Or they're awesome at Photoshop. 😅
Exactly. That’s that root domain authority magic.
That's what is known as a Diggity Dig.
Assuming "dig" has the same meaning, in context, in American English. Might not thinking about it…
I agree 110% with Matt.
Also you have to think that the real result in SEO is not to achieve the top positions, but to *maintain* the top positions/traffic on the long term…
You obtain the "real ROI" in SEO when you can maintain the rankings in the long term.
And for that, you need regularly new links to your site, you need trust to protect your rankings from competitors.
When you say premium content, how much does it cost?
I pay anything from $50 to $200 I have a few in depth guides that I paid $200 for…
This may satisfy you: To Block Bots E.g Ahrefs, Majestic, SEMrush, Etc, Except Google, Bing Bots
Discussion 1: Asked SEO tips for Bing Search Engine
A national client is seeing improvements in Google traffic, but declines in Bing. Who has Search Engine Optimization (SEO) tips for Bing?
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Asking for Bing optimization tips from people who never worry about Bing is like asking a bicycle repair shop to tune up a motorcycle engine.
First of all, Bing and Google are two totally completely separate search engines. So "what works for Google works for Bing" is completely wrong. Bing does its own thing.
Like Google Bing uses links in its algorithms – but also like Google you need links the search engine knows about. Bing is pickier than Google about what it indexes so your client is less likely to have links indexed in Bing than in Google. If you want more Bing-indexed links then you need more links from sites indexed in Bing. It doesn't work any other way.
Secondly, make sure your client's traffic decline isn't seasonal or due to something they have done to the site. If they've blocked Bing, or removed or updated content, or if their searchers' interests change because of the time of year, then the decline could be normal.
Third, if the site isn't verified in Bing Toolbox then get it verified there. Bing will tell you if it has a problem with the site. It could take up to 2 weeks for Bing to populate the account with data, so be patient.
Fourth, Bing powers most secondary search engines. If referral traffic from those services is growing then it could just be that Bing's users are switching to Bing partners.
Bing partners include:
*) Publisher's Clearing House
*) Most if not all ISP search interfaces
There are over 100 Bing search partners. To understand just how much traffic Bing is really sending to a site, you need to add up those referrals. Most people don't do that (especially people who don't believe Bing is a source of traffic).
Thanks for tuning up my motorcycle engine 😉 Good point about secondary search engines, didn't think of that